I think this is a simple call.

The recipient of correspondence -- electronic or otherwise -- is within his or her rights to share it.

The writer of correspondence should send his or her message with this fact clearly in mind.

A simple request for confidentiality by a writer to a correspondent is not a sufficient basis for the expectation of confidentiality. Only a written agreement to such a term by the correspondent in advance of receipt of the material in question should suffice.

I am aware of a situation in which a respected member of this Forum received the most vile PMs imaginable -- pointed efforts to cause emotional distress during a time of personal tragedy -- from a widely but, alas, not universally disrespected member. I counseled the recipient to post them in a new thread as a means of exposing the sender's character and agenda to readers who otherwise might make the tragic mistake of taking his posts seriously.

The recipient already had deleted the PMs and could not retrieve them.

In conclusion: I apologize if I have misplaced this thread.

Charles Drago

Hi Charles,

You've raise some very interesting points, which merit community discussion.

I've paraphrased PM information that was, I believe, unkind to me, in the past - and regretted doing so. Impulse is an emotion best controlled in certain situations.

I don't like to see PMs posted, that is a general personal opinion.

I do expect, however, a request for confidentiality to be adhered to - and I've never had a bad experience in this, whether it has been asked of me or I've asked for it.

Alas, I am alarmed that any member of this forum, liked or otherwise, would, with consideration, make "pointed efforts to cause emotional distress during a time of personal tragedy". This is deplorable behaviour - it is also behaviour which, I believe, should have actionable consequences - if sufficiently vile (and I do take your word for it); be that as a result of passing a complaint directly to John or Andy or another method, I really don't know - I do know moderation is not an option in cases like this.

Ultimately though, I don't wholly agree, though I do substantially in the case you've described, with the predicate that recipients of PM's can share them.

Gary

I actually agree with Drago and Gary on this but the other moderators and Peter Lemkin seem to disagree. IMO PM`s are normally private but when abusive can be made public by the recipient/victim.

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...st&p=127649

My rule of thumb is simple, never put anything in a private message you would'nt be happy sharing with the World. Abuse of P/Ms is, in my book, the act of a coward, and a bully. Nuff said. Steve.

I agree with Stephen's comment, but with my Mod hat must say that a PM is private between the sender and the recipient except in a few circumstances. One of those may be if you feel the PM is threatening, in which case it should be brought to the attention of a staff member for further action if required.

As the name says, a PM is private. I would also believe (but John S and Andy W can verify because I am unsure) that a lot of the normal forum rules do not apply. For instance, if you sent a PM to another member and said "You are a liar. I think you are scum and would not lift a finger to help you under any circumstances" I think that is not breaking any rules regarding PMs. If, however, you send something like "Keep looking over your shoulder, because one day, somewhere, at some time, I'm going to be there and then you'll know what justice is all about", that is clearly threatening behaviour and is prohibited under any circumstances.

PM's are totally private whereas e-mails sent through the board are logged and could be read by admins if they were so inclined (which we are not!).
I can see several circumstances where someone might want to make public the contents of a PM so Stephen's advice is pretty sound and is basicly the advice we give students regarding any electronic messages.

I think we would certainly consider taking action against a member who threatens another in the way described above. I would also advise the victim of such an attack to consider reporting such threatening behaviour (which under English law is technically an "assault") further.

Oh - another case is where both parties consent to the PM being made public.

Thanks to one and all for your responses.

A tough call to be sure, but isn't life in the "gray area" stimulating!

Charles

I think sharing information obtained in PM's is fine. However, that doesn't mean that the name of the sender needs to be shared unless that person has been asked for it to be allowed beforehand.

Bill I have to say this.
In the Bowers thread you quoted from at least two peoples PM's without mentioning their names,
you didn't have to, I regognised those two by the way they express themselves.

Personally I don't think this is a good idea, especially from you Bill who debates more than well enough by yourself, you really don't need support from messages sent to you privately, especially not when they are expressing personal opinions.

If the PM contains items related to facts of research I would still ask permission before posting it but that's just me.

PM's are private & if you start posting them, people wil stop PM'ing you.
No?

Alan,

You speak with silver tones of truth!

Here is a PM to you:

(Do not reveal my name, please. Shorty is too short.)

Back in November I received an e-mail from a member of this forum but I only noticed and opened it about a month ago when I was cleaning out my in box. I considered it an odd mixture of absurd paranoia and harassment. I added part of it to my signature. Despite the fact that the sender has on at least three occasions quoted e-mails sent to him with out the sender’s permission he objected. When he claimed falsely (IMO) that I quoted him out of context I quoted the entire message, which he objected to even more.

Despite the facts that:

• the forum has no rule concerning posting personal messages or e-mails

• Andy implied that “e-mails sent through the board” are less private than PM’s

• the sender himself has posted the text of e-mails sent to him without permission

• based on this thread the members and more importantly the moderators and administrators are split over the issue of whether this should be permitted

…the text of the e-mail was removed by a moderator and I was asked to remove the excerpt from my signature and warned never to quote the contents of an e-mail (without permission).

IMO if the recipient neither:

a) Indicated to the sender he or she would maintain their communications private nor
b) initiated contact with or replied to previous personal communication from the sender

and finds is contents objectionable, there should be no restriction be made on making e-mail or PM public. The e-mail I got was the equivalent of a crank call. Do any of the moderators or administrators here think I'd be wrong to make the contents of a crank call public?

In addition to the issue of whether or not the recipient of an e-mail has the right to make its contents public on this forum (especially if they consider it harassing) this raises another question, can moderators make up and enforce new unwritten rules especially when there doesn’t seem to be consensus amongst the other moderators?

But back to the topic of divulging personal communications, if it is forbidden to divulge the contents of e-mail messages shouldn’t it logically be forbidden to divulge the contents of conversations without the explicit permission of the other part? Numerous posts on this forum include people recounting what others told them.

Such a rule protects cowards who wish to harass or threaten other members without their ‘victim’ being allowed to bring this to the attention of the forum.

If such a new rule is to now be enforced I request that it be put into writing in clear unambiguous terms with the other rules here http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=2243

Oh and now that we’re on the subject the rules should also be posted to a pinned thread on all the sub-forums they apply to.

EDIT turned off emoticons

Hi,

I am not (thankfully) involved in any of the upheavals that are currently underway and have only just found this post (whilst reading threads related to current upheaval) and was surprised that no one had replied after it?

A personal email or a PM in my opinion is equivalent to a posted letter or telegram and as such becomes the property of the recipient unless otherwise categorically stated and then only in matters of a legal nature. Therefore I see absolutely no reason to consult the person who sent the email/PM in respect of posting the contents unless there is either a copyright or courtesy issue to consider.

Receiving a personal email/PM containing threats or insults does not fall into the courtesy bracket in my book and unless the contents were previously published and credited to the sender, it’s unlikely there is a copyright issue to worry about. So in a nut shell, if someone was to send me a nasty email and I chose to publish it, this is my decision and no one else’s. If the sender has objections to my action then don't send me nasty emails or PM’s – Simple.

I accept that if this forum (as part of its rules) does not want email/PM contents published then this should be clearly stated in the forum rules and/or terms of use and privacy policy.

The problem I am having with this entire cloak and dagger/invisible threads/deleted threads/edited threads is that I have no idea what is going on or where I and others like me stand. - What are the rules? What is my position as a ‘new’ member? What is acceptable for me to post and what is not? Do I really have to receive permission from a teacher to call Tommy a name back after he has just insulted me? Or do I just report Tommy to a teacher?

To be perfectly honest and I know this thread is not where I should make this comment, but thus far I have spent most of my time reading old threads not entirely in the interest of learning and educating myself on topics of the highest interest to me. But rather just to evaluate which topics are safe for me to post MY opinions or questions on (so I can get more involved) without getting shot in the cross fire from what is beginning to resemble a war zone.

I do have one question and I do not mind how or where it is answered, but did someone really get banned from this forum for this statement: “Sorry oh blind one, but it's NOT the shadow of an astronot” – Please tell me that this was a joke.

Thanks - Steve


Edit: 'post' instead of 'thread'

Steve, you really dont need to worry too much about the moderators, whom I've always found to be honest, fair and sensible. If a debate becomes overheated and insults are exchanged the mods are more likely than not going to 'turn a blind eye' regarding both participants to be as bad as each other. There are of course common sense limits to this 'general rule of thumb'. The trouble only really starts when one participant runs grizzling to a mod, then they are of course obliged to intercede. Just follow the simple playground rules you learnt as a child and you'll have no problems. Those rules include: no swearing, no bullying, no calling someone a liar and most importaint, if yer cant take it, dont give it. You'll be fine, relax. Denis. :